A Very Controversial Post, Why Do We Circumsize Boys, It is Worth Reading

This is a repost from my blog freind Larry Z and I commend it to you as a very thought provoking article. He is an articulate and “outside the box” thinker and a previous re-blogger on my Blog
Why do we circumcise?

Modern doctors (in the US) routinely advise new parents to circumcise their baby boys. It is a given in many hospitals that newborn males will be circumcised, if possible, before they are allowed to leave the hospital. (No other industrial country does this to their baby boys.)

Why do we in the USA do this to our baby boys? Why do parents consent to this without giving much thought to their decision and its life long adverse effects on their son(s) and their future daughter(s)-in-law?

Let’s ignore the vested financial interest that doctors, interns and hospitals have in this procedure that is done a million times each year. (When nationalized health care systems have been put in place in English speaking countries, circumcision has not been covered as it is correctly deemed an unnecessary surgery.)

Is it that the son must look like his father? As others have pointed out, we would not amputate a baby’s arm if his father had previously lost his arm. Yet, with circumcision we are amputating healthy, useful tissue for no good reasons.

Do we circumcise (mutilate) in order to prevent cervical cancer, the spread of venereal diseases, and masturbation? Well, all these problems were to be prevented or at least greatly lessened by circumcision. That is what the doctors told us. At one time or another these were the defenses of circumcision offered to parents and to society as a whole. By the way, all the numerous evils (cervical cancer, the spread of venereal diseases, masturbation, etc.) that circumcision was supposed to eliminate were never eliminated by it. All these myths, masquerading as truth, have been debunked long ago. (The masturbation myth is really offensive to people’s intelligence. The doctors in the 1800s asserted that masturbation was responsible for many maladies including epilepsy. And the way to stop masturbation was to circumcise because the greater sensitivity of the natural penis (with its thousands of nerve endings) was the cause of masturbation. People really believed these quack doctors on this. If such were true, with all the circumcised males in this country, one would think that masturbation would be very rare indeed! Forgive me here – but the truth is the truth. Hey doctors, masturbation has more to do with seminal glands being full to overflowing when there is no other sexual outlet available.)

Regrettably, even today, people blindly listen to doctors and show them the deference due a medieval priesthood. Doctors are not incapable of error. They are not infallible and they can, and do, have their own agendas at times.

Why is this important? Fair enough. Circumcision is a major issue because it so grievously injures marriages by abnormalizing coitus for both the wife and for her husband. Our brains and genitals are wired for natural sex – not for circumcised sex. Do not take my word for it. This thesis has been very well developed by Kristen O’Hara in her book, Sex as Nature Intended It (2002) which is very comprehensive in its treatment of why natural coitus is more enjoyable and gratifying to both the wife and her husband. (Kristen obtained many comments from women who had had the comparative experiences of having natural husbands/partners and having circumcised husbands/partners. She also obtained the comments and insights of men who had been circumcised as adults and could compare from their own personal experiences natural coitus and circumcised coitus.) Basically, the point is that a vagina and a natural penis (not circumcised) can do truly wonderful things together that cannot be done with a mutilated, circumcised penis. (Go out to Amazon and get a copy of this book. It is very informative and will open your eyes to the truth of the damage that circumcision does.)

When circumcised adult men think about what they have been deprived of, it is very painful for them. This is understandable. Yet, choosing to remain in a state of denial, as so often happens when one is dealing with great pain and hurt, does not help our children and is not the right thing to do. Perpetuating the superstitious practice of needless infant circumcision is opting for perpetuating ignorance and assaulting future marriages.

It is rather ironic that we have a federal law on the books (from the mid 1990s) prohibiting the genital mutilation of girls in this country, but we look the other way when the genitals of boys are routinely mutilated day in and day out. And foreskin restoration is not the solution to this injustice. As the old adage says, “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” is apropos here. Foreskin restoration is a very lengthy and difficult process in that it requires a very large commitment of time, effort, and inconvenience and does not always yield good results for many men.

To Christians that are concerned with children’s rights, I would humbly point out that children do have a right to bodily integrity. We do not hear of Catholics or Protestants condemning this needless mutilation of baby boys in this country. (In fact, it was Protestant doctors that introduced circumcision to the US in the late 1800s. It was not universally advocated for the entire population by Jewish doctors or Rabbis. Do not blame or fault Jewish folks for this. Also, Catholic bishops failed (and still fail) to condemn this harmful practice because they believed the doctors’ claims about masturbation’s terrible health effects and that masturbation would be lessened or eradicated by circumcision.) And this is not a “gay” or “straight” issue. This is about whether we are going to confront erroneous beliefs and correct our thinking such that we start doing to justice to our children.

Lastly, women have a right to natural husbands. For the sake of future generations’ marital happiness and strength of marriages, we – both mothers and fathers – really need to oppose this practice.

We, as Americans, need to overcome our ego-centrism in thinking that our way is the only way or even necessarily the best way to do things. The rest of the world is correct in not doing this to their baby boys.

Thank you for your time in reading this.

38 Responses to A Very Controversial Post, Why Do We Circumsize Boys, It is Worth Reading

  1. Rob says:

    if I hadn’t had two girls, I’d have been in a battle royale with my wife and her family over this. circumcision is horrible. it just shows how little respect this culture has for males, and what it is to be male. we are here to fight and die in wars, do all the manly things women can’t and don’t want to do, and keep a stiff upper lip – big boys don’t cry. I abhor circumcision. How would our young ladies like to have their clitoral hoods removed ? same thing…I can tell you from experience, when I got to be 13 , just walking down the hall at school sexually stimulated me. Why? because the glans of my penis had no protection , that’s why.

  2. Rob says:

    P.S there should’nt be anything controversial about this. but thanks to religion and women’s general distaste of the penis, it’s accepted. my wife tells me uncircumsized penis’ are ugly. just because of what she’s used to. i wish I’d had a son so I could have made an issue of this in my own life.

  3. persuaded2go says:

    I can’t help but feel this is grossly overanalyzed. As a partner in overanalysis, my feeling about that surprised me, but nonetheless, what’s the point of discussing something when you can’t do a thing to change it…? It’s like beating a dead horse. Why not come up with ways to justify what has already taken place and how to make it exciting in order to be content with life instead of trying to find something new things to feel ripped off about? Why not discuss how great it feels when he moves his circumsized penis slowly in and out and you can feel the rim of it…so great. Or how about how fun it is to lick and play and how clean it looks without all the extra skin. All I’m saying is that what you are looking for, you will find. Since you can’t change what has happened, figure out ways to compete with the so-called ‘much better’ uncircumsized penis. In my opinion, my husband wins hands down.

    • Hey Ms Persuaded
      You make an excellent point. I think that the point of Larry’s blog post is that
      we should consider changing it for the future. His point about not allowing genital
      mutilation on infant girls is well taken.
      Blessings on you and yours
      John

      • persuaded2go says:

        Point definitely taken on female mutilation…and it was assumed. No one on this continent does that, do they? I do enjoy reading the opinions of others, perhaps because I like expressing my own…and I know your blog is a safe place to do that. Thanks for listening. It was definitely the WEIRD highlight of my day!

      • Hey Ms Persuaded
        I would not doubt that Muslims in this country do it under the guise of Sharia Law but they certainly do it in other countries
        and yes your opinion is always safe and respected here

  4. larryzb says:

    Upon rereading my essay, it is clear that I failed to mention the most recent defenses of routine infant male circumcision – that of greater cleanliness and reduced UTIs in baby boys. Both are bunk. Cleaning the genitals with gentle washing works for both males and females, whether as children or when they are adults.
    The “evidence” for increased UTIs in natural males as opposed to circumcised males I do not believe is statistically significant. But, that is beside the point as proposing genital mutilation to reduce UTIs, which are easily treatable with anti-biotics, is akin to recommending cutting off a finger if you have an ingrown nail.

    Circumcision is a “cure” in search of a disease and it has been so for more than a century in the USA.

    God does not make mistakes. When we take out tonsils, children’s immune systems are impaired as the tonsils do play a necessary and positive role in the immune system. Even the lowly appendix is now being recognized for playing a role in health.

  5. Rob says:

    hey women get a lot of yeast infections too. maybe we should cut off their labia majora , you know, to get some more circulation in there.

  6. kdaddy23 says:

    I don’t think this is controversial at all and the reason why it still happens is just like everything else we do: We do it because that’s the way it’s always been. True, doctors have been saying for the last decade that circumcision isn’t a benefit so, at the least, it should be optional and not a matter of course. Still, other doctors battling against HIV/AIDS have reported that they’ve had success knocking down some of the numbers by snatching foreskins, the simple thing here is that contamination has nowhere to hide, so to speak.

    And, really, how is a guy gonna miss something he didn’t know he had until way after the fact? By the time he can pitch a bitch about getting cut, YEARS have gone by and, as you say, getting it reattached is probably not worth it and, to me, like closing the barn door after the cows have already hauled ass.

    Just the same, I do believe the practice was one borne out of ignorance more than a real and serious need to do it; couch it in religious dogmatic rituals and you have people lopping off foreskins going forward.

    Now, while you could probably make a case for male circumcision, the practice of circumcising women is totally unnecessary and more so when you find out that the only reason why they mutilate women like this is to curb their desires to have sex – that way, they can focus on important shit, like getting sold to some dude who already has 15 wives (for three cows, two sheep and a chicken).

    • larryzb says:

      Hey kdaddy23,

      I have long thought and said that when you strap down an infant, male or female, and mutilate his/her genitals, it is about power and control.

      Several years ago, I read a book authored by an African American woman on the subject of female genital mutliation. (I cannot recall the title or the author’s name at present.) She travelled to Africa and interviewed some of the women who perform these horrific mutliations on the pubescent girls. When asked why they continue to do these mutilations, these women said to the effect “this is our custom, we have always done this.”
      They never thought to question why they continue to do this.

      So, your observation “We do it because that’s the way it’s always been.” is correct.

      John Stuart Mill, 19th century British philosopher, observed that once something (an action, practice, custom, belief, etc.) becomes ingrained in the society, taken for granted, and rarely if ever questioned, it is almost impossible to root it out of that society.

      • kdaddy23 says:

        Of course it’s about power and control – nothing else makes much sense, does it? It’s the way it’s always been done and questioning such things become problematic. Even here, uncut men aren’t looked at with much favor, are they? They’re assumed to have filthy, unclean pricks under all that unsightly and unappetizing foreskin, right? You announce that you’re not going to have your unborn son cut up like that, people might give you some shit about it because while it is about power and control for those who say that this must be done, it is about mindless obedience to a practice that may or may not have any real value to it.

  7. Rob says:

    the comparisons to genital mutilation in girls hurts the cause. just because what happens to boys in this society is not as horrid as losing a clitoris does not make it acceptable. it’s not an apt analogy. the true analogy is – remove the clitoral hood – boys and girls in the womb have the same sex organ until month 3 or 4. the part that becomes the head of the penis in boys becomes a clitoris in girls.

    I ‘m sure you could make a case for removing some part of female analogy based on avoiding some issue down the road. heck remove the clitoris. then they won’t have sex and won’t get STDS. the justifications are wrong. This issue has bothered me for decades. Teach your songs to wash their private parts. I guess that ‘s more distasteful to prudish americans than it is to cut off a foreskin.

  8. Hey Rob
    Unfortunately the medical profession brooks little independent thinking and is big on tradition whether it makes any sense or not and Larry’s post is well taken as you agree.

  9. kdaddy23 says:

    By the way, John, congrats on your upcoming book!

  10. Thanks Rob
    Writing this blog for two years has convinced me of the need for it

  11. rich says:

    to compare male and female circumcision is silly. they are two completely different things. it is equally silly to compare amputating an arm to circumcision. the world health organization endorses the practice. also, it is unfair to ask women to compare the enjoyability of sex with both cut and uncut men because you’re not comparing the same man. perhaps the uncut male was just better at it.

    none of those comparisons is worthwhile.

    • Rich thanks for sharing your opinion
      John

    • Rob says:

      why don’t you tell us what female circumcision is then. most people compare male circumcision to the removal of the clitoris. you’re right, that’s rediculous. no one would ever think to remove the clitoral hood, but that’s what is done to boys.

  12. larryzb says:

    In response to Rich above….

    Removing the foreskin from an infant male is correctly termed an amputation as the entire foreskin is removed (forcibly cut off from the body). The foreskin is healthy tissue and is functional (as an arm or finger is). These comparisons are put forth to encourage open minded consideration of the damage that circumcision does to males.

  13. Gene Molloy says:

    Hmmm……….So as a circumcised male I am missing out on something? That’s strange, because if sex was any better they would probably put it on the controlled substance list and make it illegal. All I know is that as someone who practices masterbation and intercourse, and is an eager receipient of oral sex, me and my Pretty have a pretty darn good time. I don’t feel cheated, mutilated, or abused. Who would have thought?

    • According to Larry you are, but since I am circumsized as well I can’t vouch for that
      John Wilder

      • larryzb says:

        According to Larry……this is not about me.

        Actually, in my essay, at top, I say don’t take my word for it. Read Kristen’s book – she did the very thorough research and addresses this issue more comprehensively than can be done here in this venue. (Her book is not the only out there on this issue, but is the best in its treatment of the issue.) This view is really according to the men and women who have had the comparative experiences.

        Please, for the sake of your sons and future daughters-in-law, do not let the doctors circumcise your son(s).

        Just yesterday, I read on a website for expecting and new mothers, one mother’s comment that she recently had her newborn son circumcised for “aesthetic” reasons and so that he would not be made fun of in the high school locker rooms. Poor boy. I doubt those reasons will comfort him when he asks his mother why he was needlessly circumcised, as he no doubt will ask. (This issue has been under the radar for many years, but it is beginning to percolate up and will not go away.) As for the high school locker room angle, as we have many immigrants, both legal and illegal, in this country that do not allow their sons to be circed (because this is not done in the cultures that they are from), an uncircumcised white or black teen would not be a unique sight in the locker rooms.

  14. tangerinedey says:

    I really enjoyed the article and reading the different opinions.

    The overall question is ‘Is it necessary?’ And the answer seems to be ‘No’ despite what the World Health Organization endorses (which was a surprising comment coming from a former teacher). Education, after all, takes many voices to change silly and antiquated practices.

    For what it’s worth, I find sex with uncircumcised men more enjoyable because there is more there. A fair comparison would be if a circumcised male wore a ‘cock ring’ around his penis.

  15. larryzb says:

    We’re not yet at the “hundredth monkey” point when a challenge to collective thinking reaches a tipping point, and then is followed by a major change. But, in time, I think we will get there in the USA.

    • Keep on spreading the word and perhaps we will get there. How do they do it in European countries?

      • larryzb says:

        Hey John,

        Here is who circumcises: Orthodox Jews, many Muslims, some sub-Saharan African tribes, and Americans (United States only).

        Britain, Canada and Australia parents generally do not do this as their national health care systems do not cover unnecessary surgery. Some parents, a small percentage, still opt for this.

        Most men on the Earth at present are natural as circumcision is not practiced in Europe, Russia, China, Japan, India, Southeast Asia, Latin America (both Spanish and Portugeuse Latin America), etc. Estimates vary but the range of estimates is that between 25 and 30 percent of males are circumcised in the world today. Hardly a popular practice.

      • Hey Larry thanks for the update, it does help to clarify the issue

  16. Greg says:

    It always amazes me how those who aren’t circumcised are so good at speaking for those who are.

    • Greg perhaps you did not get that the author of this guest blog is circumsized as well as I.
      John

      • gdonner says:

        So because two of you are, you speak for all of us? Frankly, I have read the arguments, and they simply do not support many, many mens’ personal experiences with circumcision. I see a lot of philosophical similarities between the arguments for global warming and not circumcising–promotion of something that frequently does not match reality. Sorry, but when you start discounting personal experience, you lose my respect.

      • Rob says:

        I personally think any talk about how it feels is irrelevant. It’s unecessary and would never be tolerated for female babies. big boys don’t cry after all. The societal attitudes towards males in this culture is really what our practice of circumcision reveals.

      • Hey Mr Donner
        I am with you on global warming, it is a great hoax and have been published on that subject, but I have a great deal of respect for Larry and his views and don’t discount them so easily as you,

      • Greg says:

        So the opinions of two people mean you can speak for all other circumcised men?

        BTW, why did you delete my last post?

      • Greg I did not delete your last post and opinions are all respected on here whether you agree with them or not

  17. Rob says:

    Greg they aren’t speaking for you. They’re telling the truth. There is no need for circumcision. This is not rocket science.

  18. larryzb says:

    In repy to gdonner above…..
    It is not clear from your words what point you are making. But, the comparative experiences of women who have had both types of male partners/husbands, and men who were circumcised as adults and have had both natural and circed sex do carry weight here. In the womens’ case, they preferred natural partners 9 to 1 in Kirsten’s study and research. Men have stated that they lost about 80 percent of the pleasurable feelings during sex after they were cut as adults.

    No one of us can speak for all others, but to ignore, discount, or trivialize those who can speak with experiences of both kinds of coitus is to chooose to remain in a state of denial.

    Let’s stop this needless practice in the US for the sake of our children and grandchildren and their marital happiness and marital success.

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